Moose Jaw Forum

One Standard wrote:According to jty in his December 6th, 2:26 PM post:

If anyone is subsidizing anyone it is the citizen of this community subsidizing the flight school and much of the industries in and around the community and always has been.

I would be interested in seeing some examples of this, not just unsubstantiated allegations. It is true that all of those who remit Canadian federal taxes pay for 15 Wing and all of its operations (with the exception of the training of foreign pilots, which is paid for by their respective nations). Apart from the payment of federal taxes, I can find no other way that Moose Jaw citizens subsidize 15 Wing and NATO Flying Training Canada that is different from how citizens of any community pay for each other's activities. Perhaps jty or another Forum contributor can provide some details of the subsidization he claims exists?

I took a look at the budget put out by the city and do see a substantial fire fighting amount from the base as a levy. The one thing I do not see there though is a levy against the residents of Bushell Park - as well as area RMs - for their use of (or fair share) city recreation facilities.
In some cases some RMs contributed their recreational infrastructure money to the city for the Multi-Plex, but with that said I do not tbhink that they - including Bushell Park - pay any of the actual operational subsidy that any of our recreational facilities provide (except maybe the library) but it is the local taxpayer that picks up that tab.
If I am wrong on that it is just that the budget documents out there do not break it down.

In his December 8th, 3:46 am post, Truth Defender wrote:

I took a look at the budget put out by the city and do see a substantial fire fighting amount from the base as a levy. The one thing I do not see there though is a levy against the residents of Bushell Park - as well as area RMs - for their use of (or fair share) city recreation facilities.
In some cases some RMs contributed their recreational infrastructure money to the city for the Multi-Plex, but with that said I do not tbhink that they - including Bushell Park - pay any of the actual operational subsidy that any of our recreational facilities provide (except maybe the library) but it is the local taxpayer that picks up that tab.
If I am wrong on that it is just that the budget documents out there do not break it down.

My understanding is that the City is contracted by DND to provide fire-fighting services to 15 Wing (other than aircraft crash response) and Bushell Park, so the funds would not show up as payment against a levy; I don't know where they would be included in the City's budget. When it comes to residents of Bushell Park using City recreational facilities, they would be considered the same as anyone else who lives in the RM of Moose Jaw. I don’t know what, if any, levies the RM of Moose Jaw pays to the City for those services and facilities the RM residents may use. Those living in Private Military Quarters (base housing) pay rent to the Crown and a component of the money is equivalent to property taxes, but they are not taxed directly by the RM. Instead, DND, which as a Federal Government Department does not directly pay taxes, remits funds to the municipality(ies) in which its holdings lay, under the guise of Payment In Lieu of Taxes, commonly referred to by the acronym, PILT. What the municipality(ies) does with these funds rests with the municipality(ies); whether they are used to pay levies imposed by other municipal governments would be oblivious to DND. Therefore, if the RM of Moose Jaw pays levies to support Moose Jaw recreational facilities, Bushell Park residents are likely not being subsidized. If, on the other hand, the RM does not pay a levy to cover its fair portion of City facilities, then Bushell Park residents only pay the fee charged at the door, the same amount paid by any visitor to the City. It should be noted that the vast majority of those who are posted to 15 Wing or work there own homes in Moose Jaw and support City facilities and services directly through their property taxes.

eKb wrote:I personally don't want any cuts to the fire dept or Police dept. Our safety is very important to me and I'm sure very many people. We are not a small town. We need professionals looking out for us. I would prefer cuts elsewhere and maybe even in the dept. there could be cost saving measures, but how much value do you put on a life, if its your house on fire, or being broken into?

I took a closer look at this statement and I can understand the sentiment.
The big problem I have with it is that many times when they do increase the police force's budget it is not to put more police out on the street, but rather it always seems to go for administration, new goodies of dubious results or it seems to swell the police force's adminstration.

When it comes to our fire department I can see a lot of room to move there.
We should all remember that the fire department is not just the fire department, but it also seems to be the department that the city sweeps a lot of responsibility to that is not directly related to fighting fires.
Take a look at when it comes to dangerous goods it seems that this is one area tasked to the fire department.
I am wondering if should it be and if it is maybe they could seek funding - through a provincial agreement - whereby there are disposal fees placed on the sale of all of these products and then have the user pay for their disposal.
People can call this just another tax if they so choose, but really why should our fire department and city be held responsible physically and financially for disposing of toxic chemicals?

I do see that the city of Hamilton - much bigger than Moose Jaw - auguments its regular fire department with volunteers, but I cannot say as to what extent this is employed and what the cost savings - if any - there are to the City of Hamilton.

Awhile back people on this board pointed out when you call an ambulance that it seemed that the ambulance, police and fire deapartment showed up when it was not required. Maybe there could be some sort of easy and cheap review done to address this situation and stop the waste of resources - when they are not needed - and thus help to reduce staffing and other costs and give the taxpayer a break.

I do agree with ekb on her statement though and that being nobody wants to see a catastrophe simply because of being cheap and saving a buck. I personally wonder though if in regards these two departments we are not seeing a case of "too many chiefs and not enough Indians" to get out there and get the work done.

Hopefully by posting this topic it helped to generate interest and get people talking about ways to help hold the line on taxes and at the same time make it more affordable to live here. I personally do not believe that we have only two options here as the administration says - either cut services or increase taxes - but look at a third option and that seek other areas for funding (user fees) and then use those fees in a reponsible manner.

If the city can have the kids at the summer playground program go out into the neighbourhoods to collect bottles to pay for the program wind-up celebration, then maybe the city needs to look at means of finding alternative funding sources for some of the extravagances out there.

And no I am not calling for the mayor to go out on a city-wide bottle drive no matter how just that might be for many......